‘Wait, he’s the GM?!?’ - Issa Tall on leading the Columbus Crew and navigating race and perception across France and the U.S.

The 38-year-old general manager is one of the few Black executives in American soccer, and he feels that responsibility after growing up with few others to look up to

On his path towards becoming the General Manager of the Columbus Crew, Issa Tall spent some time working with FIFA. One of his big jobs was to travel to Qatar ahead of the World Cup and scout out training sites and hotels. Tall and his colleagues would visit sites, mingle with property managers and, ultimately, decide how to proceed.

There was one day from that time in his life that stands out most. In between the various property tours, Tall and his colleagues entered an elevator, and it didn't take long for Tall to get that familiar feeling that any Black man in a position of leadership will know all too well.

"The people who were the managers walked in," Tall recalls in an interview with GOAL. "They shook my colleagues' hands. There were four of us, and they shook everyone's hand but mine. Maybe they thought I was the driver or the security guy or whatever, but they didn't shake my hand. Did that hurt me? Yes, of course. It always does. But is it shocking? No, it's not. After the fact, they realized I was the person in charge and they tried to come back, but they'd already done it. It's one of those things. It's hard to explain."

Tall wants to make one thing clear: his experiences are his and his alone. There are certain things that he's encountered that he believes are unique to him, a person who was born and raised in France but has embarked on a career at the top levels of American soccer. There are certain aspects of life that he doesn't understand or hasn't encountered, so he's hesitant to be put in one overarching box.

Now, with that said, Tall has had plenty of experiences he considers shared. He's felt the awkward looks when he's the only one in a room that looks like him. He's felt that sense of confusion as a child, wondering why there were so few people with black skin representing soccer in the way he wanted to. And, even now, he still looks around and wonders why there are so few people of color in various positions across soccer, considering how many Black boys and girls grow up loving this sport.

More than anything, Tall knows what it means to be a Black man in a world where there are so few, which is why the work he's doing with the Columbus Crew is so important. Since Tall arrived in Columbus, first as assistant GM and now in the big role itself, the Crew have won two MLS Cups, a Campeones Cup, a Leagues Cup, and an MLS Next Pro title. The 38-year-old has helped build one of the most sustainable machines in American soccer, and many years from now, when he is finished, he hopes that's part of his legacy.

He also hopes there's a bigger picture to it, a sense of inspiration. After growing up wondering when and how a Black man can lead a club, Tall is now doing it, and he knows he won't be the last.

"I'm comfortable talking about it because someone who is not Black couldn't understand what I go through," he says. "Despite now being in a position where I lead a club, no one can put themselves in my shoes when I walk into a room for an event. You get that look of, 'Wait, he's the GM?!', and it doesn't disappear. The thing I have to stress is that you have to be good. You have to be good at what you do, period. Whether you're Black or whatever, you have to be good. Being Black, you have that feeling that you have to do twice as much. Sometimes, you do feel that pressure because you can't fail. You have that responsibility, but, ultimately, you just have to be really good at what you do.

"Maybe I think too much of myself, but I feel like I have responsibility, especially towards the youth, because when I was young, there was only one Black president of a club. There was one anomaly. I hope that kids can look at me and can say, 'Oh wow, I can be like him'."

To mark Black History Month, GOAL is launching a series featuring four leading Black executives whose influence continues to shape soccer in America. The series continues with Tall, discussing his journey, the moments and people that defined it, and what it means to be a person of color in rooms where there are so few.

NOTE: This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.

Previous BHM stories: Allen Hopkins

Columbus Crew
Starting the journey
GOAL: Starting at the beginning of your professional journey, at least, when did you know you wanted to be a part of this? Everyone has that conversation with themselves when they realize, "Hey, I might not make it as a player," but, for you, when did you realize there was a path for you to stay involved on the executive side?
TALL: I came here to play in college and my goal was just to get a degree because I'd put a cross on being a professional after trying to in France. College soccer worked well for me, where there was interest for me to try out for MLS teams, but I made a decision not to pursue it. I initially wanted to go a different route, but I realized that, look, I'm a soccer guy. It's what I've been talking about my entire life, and I wanted to stick to soccer. From my internship at the league office onward, I didn't set a goal that I wanted to be a GM or a president or a commissioner; I just wanted to be the best I can be in what I do. They've let me do that here.
GOAL: One of the things that everyone needs, whether you're a player or a GM or a journalist, is someone who believes in them. Many also need someone they can look up to but the fact is that there weren't that many of those people in leadership roles when you were coming up. Who did you look to?
TALL: To start, when I was younger, and I was a player, there were so many players I wanted to be. I didn't just look at players that looked like me. You name it: Zidane, Ronaldo, the real one. There were also players who looked like me, and I don't know how to say it, but they motivate you more. They tell you it's possible. Thierry Henry was one that I tried to emulate. He was a hero. The way he approached the game as a player, but also his persona, he looked like me, and I felt I could be like him.
On the front office side, there was only one guy who was the president of a club. He was the only one who made you say it was possible to be at the head of a club. His name was Pape Diouf, and he was the president of Marseille, and they were very successful, too.
GOAL:Who were the people who helped guide you once you were in the business?
TALL: When I came to the league office, Tim Bezbechenko was one person who believed in me, but there were other people. One is Nelson Rodriguez, and the other is Paul Grafer. These people instilled confidence in me by saying, 'We know you have a bright future and, if you continue that way, the path is here'. The second thing, when you talk about representation and people to look up to, while I didn't have that in France, when I came here, Barack Obama was the President of the United States. You had city mayors who were Black. In sports, you had GMs and coaches who were Black. For example, I was in Toronto when Masai Ujiri was there. I think seeing someone like that being the head of the Raptors, being successful, commanding a room, you look up to him. You say, "Okay, I guess there is a path, and there is a possibility here".

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Comparing France to the U.S.
GOAL: On the outside, you look at the French national team and you can say, "That's representation". There are players who are white and black, Christian and Muslim, from Paris or Africa or the Middle East. On the field, the best often win out because it is easy to measure. Like you said, though, there aren't always people of color in executive positions, whether that's in France or the U.S. As someone who is in one of those positions that did grow up in France, how does everything you've experienced dictate your views on race? Have they changed?
TALL: It's a longer discussion, but let's use France. Growing up, I wasn't thinking about it because it was a multicultural way to grow up. We always looked at the French team as a melting pot that represented us in a way. Now I have a question for you: look at the French national team, and then look at their bench - what do you see? Coaches, physios, equipment managers, operations coordinators - it starts there. There's no diversity there. There's no representation. You say, 'Okay, I can't even get there because it doesn't exist and there's no path'.
I'm not saying everything is great here and, by all means, we have a lot of work to do. This is a conversation I've had at the league office, where we talked about needing to be better and I stopped and said, "Compared to France, it isn't that bad." There are things to do, but we're on the right track because at least I'm not the only one in MLS. There are others as well. Can there be more? Should there be more? Probably, and not just on the front office side but everywhere else, whether it's coaching or operations, you name it. At least people can acknowledge it and try to do something about it, and that's a big step.
Columbus Crew
Scouting players
GOAL: It's no mystery that players are often stereotyped. Black players are athletic, white players are smart, etc. Everyone has heard those descriptions and, for many, it colors how they view particular players on the field. As someone who is working on the soccer side of things, how have those stereotypes impacted your work? Do you think the world has gotten better with not placing players in those types of boxes?
TALL: To be honest, it's hard to say because I'm looking at it from my perspective. My club, the people I'm surrounded with, I've been fortunate. I've been lucky to be around people that don't have prejudice. Yes, there are people who would label players as athletic or technical, and yes, I've heard it, but you have to call those people out. Honestly, at our club, I've never had to do something like that, and it's not because of me. It's because of the types of people we have at our club.

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Columbus Crew
Speaking up
GOAL: One thing that most people don't understand is that not everyone is comfortable speaking on race. Everyone has a different level of confidence or passion about it and, so often, Black players or leaders are expected to speak on things that some aren't fully comfortable with. How comfortable are you when it comes to speaking about race and diversity, and has that changed?
TALL: I could talk for hours about it, and I can tell you something that I'd like to stress and point out: I'm black and proud, but I'm not African American. How I grew up is different than someone who is just as Black as me, but grew up differently somewhere else. My experiences are different than someone who grew up here...That's why, for me, it's hard to understand some things here. Obviously, I try to educate myself, and that's part of the reason I'm more comfortable, in a way.
GOAL: Is there a part of your journey that you really want people to understand? Is there a part of your story that you think the outside world, particularly people who aren't Black, may not fully comprehend?
TALL: The one thing I want people to know is that everybody has their own story, and you don't know people until you know them. You can just look at one Black person and another one think and think they have the same background or the same story...My point is that everybody has their own story. Everybody has their own background, and what I can say is that I'm proud to be black, but I'm also proud to be other stuff than just my skin color.

Starting the journey

Comparing France to the U.S.

Scouting players

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Speaking up