Manchester United legend Ander Herrera sat down on the "Mario's Road" podcast alongside his friend Mario Suárez for a lengthy interview about his career, one he's still extending at his beloved Real Zaragoza.
Across spells with Athletic Bilbao, Manchester United, Paris Saint-Germain and Boca Juniors, Herrera played under a string of big-name managers. One of them was José Mourinho, now in charge at Real Madrid.
Herrera spoke at length about the Portuguese, dusting off a few anecdotes and offering a quick read on his character and coaching style.
Sport newspaper published the pick of his comments. "For me, Mourinho is a coach for men," Herrera explained. "He belongs to an era of football in which players were not overly sensitive. Criticism was understood, accepted and respected, and so too the hierarchies within the team were respected."
United was the club where Herrera racked up the most appearances, level with Athletic Bilbao on 189 games apiece, according to Transfermarkt. Mourinho was his manager there.
One moment from that spell summed up both the coach's temperament and the bond he built with his players. "I remember a match after facing Saint-Étienne in the Europa League, when Mourinho came in front of everyone and told me I had been a disaster and so on... but the next day, we embraced," the midfielder recalled.
Now Mourinho is into his second season of a second spell at Real Madrid. The start was turbulent, but he's steadied the ship. Since the international break Madrid haven't lost a game, and wins in the Champions League and the Clásico have thrown them back into the fight for every trophy.
On Mourinho's situation at the Bernabéu, Herrera didn't shy away from the obstacles ahead, though he backed the Portuguese to have an answer for all of them.
"I see that Mourinho is facing a difficult bull that he has to tame," he stressed. "Real Madrid come after two difficult years, during which the team saw a great deal of noise, and its stars too were surrounded by a great deal of noise. We are in the post-Toni Kroos and post-Luka Modrić era, and it is not easy. It is an arduous task."
Every sign points to this interview taking place before the Clásico, which Real Madrid won 2-1 courtesy of a Kylian Mbappé brace. The display wasn't fluent or wholly convincing in style, yet the leap forward from their previous outings was enormous.
Herrera knows as well as anyone that taking on Barcelona under Flick is no gentle afternoon.
"And then he is facing a Barcelona that is invincible," the midfielder said in defence of his view. "All these circumstances have come together, but if there is someone who has the charisma, and I would also say... the strength and the toughness needed to turn things around, it is Mourinho. He has already done it during his first spell, when he managed, I do not know whether he completely tipped the scales, but he at least managed to bring Real Madrid to the same level as Barcelona itself."