'Stakes remain high' - FOX analyst Stu Holden on Gio Reyna's revival, Christian Pulisic’s AC Milan future and how Mauricio Pochettino can form 'U.S. team that makes us excited'

Mic'd Up: Holden discussed Reyna's move to Gladbach, Pochettino's evolving tactics and nation set to be 'consumed by the World Cup'

While their situations aren't identical, Stu Holden can relate to what Gio Reyna has gone through over the past few years.

The retired U.S. international rose to prominence in MLS with the Houston Dynamo, winning two MLS Cups, before parlaying that into a move to the Premier League with Bolton Wanderers. After struggling to initially find a fit, Holden rose to prominence with Bolton in his second year, becoming the team's player of the season, despite what was ultimately a career-changing injury.

Reyna didn't have the severity of injuries that Holden encountered, but the setbacks did ultimately impact his status at Dortmund - prompting his eventual move to Gladbach. When Holden was recovering from a fractured femur, there was a lot of noise about what he should do next - similar to Reyna. Holden refused to let outside chatter impact his decision.

"Even when I was coming back for injury, if I didn't play in a game, I was the guy that went out at that same stadium, and I did runs, and I did work with the fitness coach by myself, and I was doing every little thing to prove or just to consistently remind my coach that I needed to be in the lineup and I needed to be playing." Holden told GOAL. "I respect him for ignoring the noise and saying, I’m going to find the best situation for me in Europe, and I’m not done here yet."

Reyna found a fresh start at Gladbach, but the turbulence continued when the club sacked manager Gerardo Seoane just a day after the midfielder's debut. It's another reset, and he will now have to prove himself to a seventh manager - club and national team - since the 2022 World Cup. Holden, now an analyst with FOX Sports, wants the 22-year-old to persevere.

"I hope that Gio is viewing it through the same lens of not getting discouraged and then continuing to push and do everything that he can do to be ready for that moment, to meet that moment when it comes," he said. "He started at the weekend, so clearly they feel that he's a player who can contribute. And now you got to do that and prove it all over again to that coach.

"My advice to him would be, continue to flip your mindset to be like... 'I'm enjoying this challenge, and this is going to make me better as a player. It's going to toughen my mentality. And I know I have that ability.'"

With the Champions League kicking off this week, Holden is also eager to see how Malik Tillman and Johnny Cardoso handle bigger roles at Bayer Leverkusen and Atletico Madrid, respectively. He's also concerned that Christian Pulisic isn’t playing in Europe’s top competition and that Yunus Musah appears to be stagnating.

Holden discussed all of that and his optimism for Mauricio Pochettino and the USMNT in the latest edition of Mic'd Up, a recurring feature in which GOAL taps into the perspective of broadcasters, analysts, and other pundits on the state of soccer in the U.S. and abroad.

NOTE: This interview has been lightly edited for brevity and clarity.

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ON THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE
GOAL: The Champions League kicked off this week. Which Americans are you most excited to see in this tournament?
HOLDEN: I'm super excited about two players in particular. First, would Atletico's Johnny Cardoso. He's injured this week, but for the course of the Champions League season, I think he can really develop and become a big player. And just as I've always said about the U.S. pool in general, I think the more players we have that are playing in big matches and meaningful matches against big teams, it progresses those players. It helps them feel less pressure and big moments for the U.S... When I look at the other national teams that we play, whether that's Argentina or England - like England's players, for example, all of these guys are playing ultimately, in the end, at like the quarterfinal, semifinals, finals of a Champions League. The same for Spain. Every single season, they have a team that is in the final. And these guys are just used to playing big matches.
So, they're going to step on the field at a World Cup, and that game is not going to feel as big as it actually is. I think the sad thing is, we're actually probably down in numbers compared to the season in the past for our guys playing in the Champions League. The second is PSV's Ricardo Pepi. Seeing him in the Champions League last year, and having a really good season and scoring a number of goals, it really gave him a ton of confidence as a player. And that's what I want from a striker. And I look at the striker position on the USMNT, we have Folarin Balogun playing in the Champions League, and so is Pepi. So in essence, our two best strikers, who will be competing nose-to-nose for the starting position. So they're playing in these big matches on big nights. I think it's a really big bonus for the U.S. team.
GOAL: Which American player do you see going furthest in this competition?
HOLDEN: Likely Cardoso with Atletico Madrid. But I want to make a note on Malik Tillman. Hehad a big transfer in the offseason and is now at Bayer Leverkusen. I think he's going to play a big role for his team. One of the really fascinating things for me with Tillman in the Gold Cup was that it was his first real opportunity without Pulisic, without Weston McKennie, without Time Weah, to show that he could be a guy that can shoulder more responsibility. And he stepped up. And he delivered in a big way, and I thought he was the best player throughout the tournament, with Chris Richards.
So now you make a big transfer to Bayer Leverkusen, and now it's another step at the club level for him to push forward. And there's pressure that comes with that transfer fee [reported at $41 million]. There's pressure that comes with a new team. There's pressure with a new coach, and now a second new coach already for him in a short time. So for him to once again, find it within himself to show that he's capable of handling that pressure and delivering and being a dog and like settling into a new environment really quickly. How you do that is you deliver on big nights. And so that's going to be pretty fascinating.

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ON CHRISTIAN PULISIC
GOAL: On the other end of all of this is the fact that Christian Pulisic, who has done well in the Champions League before, is not playing because Milan didn't qualify. What are your thoughts?
HOLDEN: It's an unfortunate step back for Pulisic. It's part of the reality at times of European competition at the highest level. And as great as he has been for Milan over his past two seasons, now it's a team that's been in transition and has really been underachieving, so that puts a little bit more pressure in a different way for him to almost get Milan back into the Champions League. But I do think that's detrimental to his level that he could be playing at, because you're not playing in these big games and big nights throughout the season. That's where we saw him take a big couple of steps forward these past couple of years is that he was consistently playing in these games.
His level was so high, and then he brought that to the national team, and he brings it with Milan. It's a bummer for Pulisic, and I think if Milan were not to qualify for the Champions League again for next season, he would be looking to make a move because he's a player who wants to be playing Champions League soccer every year - and he's earned that right. I would say that, in another way, maybe the positive spin on it is for him is that there's pressure from the outside, from a league standpoint, and that every game is that much more meaningful for them to maintain a level of consistency. To be picking up points on a consistent basis, to get back into the Champions League. Because every single year, success or failure for Milan is judged on whether they're in the Champions League or not.
GOAL: It's funny you mentioned that point about his future, as another former U.S. international Brad Friedel said something similar. Should he be considering his future there, with all of the instability at the club?
HOLDEN: It's one of these interesting situations, right? Throughout his career, outside of Dortmund, he had a lot of instability. At Chelsea, he was in and out of the lineup and new coaches, and you saw that then have an impact on his a fitness because you're not in a routine and a rhythm of playing games. His happiness and his confidence weren't quite there, and that's why the Milan move has been just a total knockout success from an individual standpoint for him. He's been able to rediscover that joy of playing. And so you're constantly treading that line of like, "Well, am I challenging myself enough? Am I playing at the highest level possible? Am I still in a place where I'm valued in the same type of way?"
And how important is that, versus then, leaving a club again, to go to some of these top teams - when you're at these top teams, they end up carrying squads of 25-30 players that are all top level internationals that maybe you're not playing every single week and you're competing, but you're in a squad rotation. And so all of these things now are part of the modern game, but he's a player that we all know is capable of playing for a team in the top four of any league in Europe. And so I do think if, let's say, Milan don't make the Champions League again next year, I would be, as Christian Pulisic, thinking about wanting to make a move. You want to make sure you're playing Champions League every possible season if you're a guy at Pulisic's level.
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ON GIO REYNA
GOAL: Sticking with guys in Europe, what did you make of Reyna finally getting a fresh start at Gladbach, making his debut, and then seeing his manager get sacked the next day?
HOLDEN: Talk about a guy who has had instability the past couple of seasons, joins a new club, is excited, and then his coach gets fired the next day. He’s at a point in his career where he has to prove himself. Gio knows he has talent, but he might look in the mirror and doubt his ability to deliver consistently and stay healthy after such turbulence. It’s important for him to dig deep, focus on his performances, and integrate into a new team. Once again, he has to earn it with a new coach, earn respect within a new team, and earn playing time. To succeed in Europe, you need consistency over a longer period, and that’s what will get him back with the national team.
He said recently he’s in contact with Pochettino and believes if he finds rhythm, he’ll return to the group. His talent isn’t in doubt, but questions about his attitude on and off the field have lingered. From the outside, it seems he recognizes that and knows the opportunity in front of him. There’s no bigger carrot than a home World Cup, and that’s surely part of why he signed with Gladbach instead of going to Italy. Maybe it felt more familiar and offered a better chance at minutes. But when you’re on a team under pressure - they fired their coach - you won’t get many chances if you don’t deliver. The stakes remain high for Gio.
GOAL: During the summer, there was a lot of talk that Reyna should have strongly considered MLS because he would be essentially guaranteed minutes. What did you make of his decision to ultimately stay in Europe?
HOLDEN: I don’t view MLS as a huge step backwards in your career. When I played four years in MLS and made the move to Europe, once I was established and playing every week in the Premier League against Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal - I would have loved to stay there my entire career. It was me living out my dream, playing at the highest level. And once you get a taste of that, you don’t want to give it up. So I understand from Gio’s perspective why he still felt like this is where I want to be.
I respect him for ignoring the noise and saying, I’m going to find the best situation for me in Europe, and I’m not done here yet. I don’t think it would have been retreating or the end of his journey if he wanted to continue in Europe, even if he came back on a year’s loan to MLS. In many ways, I actually did that as a 19-year-old. I went to Europe with Sunderland, and after an unfortunate incident on the streets of Newcastle, I came back to MLS. Then I put myself in a position to return to Europe in better standing with the national team, and with more confidence to play at a higher level.

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ON SERGINO DEST
GOAL: Outside of all the Americans we discussed, any others you want to give a shoutout to in Europe?
HOLDEN: I’ve been so happy for Sergiño Dest coming back from the ACL injury. Having been through a couple myself, I give the USMNT staff and Pochettino a ton of credit because they brought him into camp before the Gold Cup, quickly recognized he wasn’t ready, and pulled back. That’s the hardest thing for a player to accept. He had played a few minutes at the end of the season, but the intensity of national team games in quick succession is different. It was smart to treat it as a long-term play. Those extra months of ACL-specific training helped him stop second-guessing himself on the ball, his cuts, and his movements. You can see that now, even in the last camp - he was moving freely.
He played with confidence. I thought he looked great in the first 60 minutes versus South Korea, and when he came off the bench against Japan, he looked electric on the left-hand side. That’s what excites me about him - he’s not afraid to try things. Starting the season well with PSV and playing in the Champions League again makes him such an important player for the U.S. He’s a difference-maker who can beat guys off the dribble and create chances - that’s so valuable in today’s game. And if we’re going to keep playing this back three/back five system, which I’ve been calling for, it hinges on Dest and Antonee Robinson being effective on the flanks. They make that formation work. It’s a really good sign for him and the U.S. that he’s off to a strong start.
IMGAN
ON USMNT'S TACTICS
GOAL: You went viral for your thoughts on Mauricio Pochettino's tactics following South Korea. Are you more encouraged by what you saw against Japan, or do you temper expectations because it was against their B squad?
HOLDEN: I think there were steps forward. If we're going to discount the fact that Japan didn't start all their best players, well, we didn't start all of our best players, either... We don't need to take away credit from a U.S. team that can only play the team that's in front of it. I felt like the U.S. definitely took a step forward. Pochettino had been searching for the right recipe since he took over, personnel within his formation, and what he’s learned over the course of a year. I think he’s realized that when he’s had his best players, he can’t get all of them on the field in the structure he typically likes to play. That’s good recognition and good coaching - to say it’s time to consider a different type of formation and tactic. We’ll see if that works in this experimentation phase.
Of course, I would have liked better results with our A group and a stronger roster in the last window. But I also understand why he didn’t. I’ll be OK with the way the past year has played out if, starting now, we say: this is the formation, these are my guys, and there’s no looking back. Fine-tune it, make a couple of changes, but build on this. That all came off how good I felt the Japan game went, which to me signified a step forward. I don’t want to say, "We beat Japan, had a clean sheet, and we’re totally OK" because there are still question marks. But it gave me enough optimism that Pochettino sees the benefits of making this switch. He’s gotten answers to questions about culture, which I thought was most important during the Gold Cup. He laid that foundation, blended it with this new group, and now has the right ingredients. If in the October window we have tough opposition, the best squad, and the right formation, then we’ll start to see a U.S. team that makes us excited for next year.
GOAL: You mentioned there are questions that still remain with this group. What are they?
HOLDEN: I think the biggest question mark is whether the star players - the ones we view as the most talented in the pool - can become leaders and deliver under pressure. A big part of Pochettino’s process this past year came in his first competitive games in the Nations League, in March’s semifinals and final, where the U.S. lost to Panama and then Canada. That was an eye-opening moment for him: the complacency, the lack of intensity, togetherness, and pride. I think that’s when he realized, “I need to shake things up. Can I find other guys to take these positions? If not, can the players I give opportunities to push the top guys so they don’t feel complacent?”
That uncertainty still remains. Tactics aside, when this team is in a tough match and the stakes are high, can they deliver? Can they compete and produce big moments that win games? I’m not sure they have that right now. Outside of Pulisic, the key players have really stalled since the World Cup. If you were tracking them like a stock, people were buying, buying, buying - but since then, they’ve just plateaued or regressed. Is that their level, or can they reach the potential we’ve seen in flashes? That’s my question.
GOAL: Is there anyone in particular who, if he took two steps forward, would make this team much better?
HOLDEN: I’d say Yunus Musah. Three or four years ago, I was so high on him. His raw athleticism, technical ability, dribbling - he could carry the ball forward in a unique way. I thought he had the tools to add goals and the final pass. He hasn’t done that. At AC Milan he never found a consistent role - right wingback, center mid, all over the field. At some point, that becomes a problem for a young player. So I have cautious optimism about his move to Atalanta. They clearly see what I saw years ago. If the new environment lets him reach the next level, he could fit nicely into the 3-4-2-1 or the flexibility Pochettino wants. But he needs tactical discipline. Can he stay in a role? Can he hold up with his back to the goal? Right now, he relies too much on dribbling and gets caught out with poor body positioning under pressure. If he improves those things, he can be a consistent high performer.
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ON THE WORLD CUP?
GOAL: What is most exciting for you about the World Cup being nine months out? What's your temperature check?
HOLDEN: I had been waiting for this moment for eight years. And now, as we sprint closer to this tournament, I feel an excited anxiousness.... By spring, it’ll be a headless-chicken sprint, and we’ll be pulled in a million directions. I can’t wait for this country to be consumed by the World Cup in a way we can’t even imagine. U.S. Soccer knows it will be big, but I think it’ll be bigger. I’ve marked Dec. 5 - the draw - on my calendar. We’ll be there at FOX Sports, and that’s when it will feel real for everyone. Players and administrators can map the path to knockouts, fans can circle games, book hotels, and buy tickets.... In 10 years, I’ve covered huge events - Qatar, Russia, Women’s World Cups in Vancouver and Australia. But this will be on another level.
GOAL
PREVIOUS EDITIONS OF MIC'D UP
Sept. 12 - Maurice Edu: Apple TV analyst on suspended Inter Miami star Luis Suarez, Lionel Messi's playing future and the Son Heung-Min effect in MLS
Sept. 11 - Maurice Edu: Apple TV analyst grades Mauricio Pochettino's first year as USMNT boss, wonders where Weston McKennie has been?
Sept. 9 - Sacha Kljestan: Apple TV analyst urges USMNT's Mauricio Pochettino to stick with core group, weighs in on MLS and Inter Miami's Luis Suarez
Aug. 28 - Keith Costigan: Apple TV analyst on Arsenal's need for a trophy, why 'writing off Liverpool is absolutely silly' and how Club World Cup can spark MLS growth
Aug. 21 - Marcelo Balboa: Apple TV analyst calls out fellow former USMNT players for vitriol toward Christian Pulisic, hails impact of Son Heung-Min in MLS
Aug. 15 - Nedum Onuoha: ESPN analyst on why Antonee Robinson is 'as good as any' defender in Premier League, concerns over Alexander Isak, expected Man City rebound
Aug. 6 - Kasey Keller: ESPN analyst calls out Mauricio Pochettino's underwhelming record with USMNT, hails Matt Turner's 'brilliant' return to MLS
July 31 - Andres and Nico Cantor: Father-son analysts on Mauricio Pochettino's chief challenge with USMNT, and Inter Miami's Leo Messi 'completing football
July 29 - Dax McCarty: Apple TV's Dax McCarty on why MLS was right to suspend Lionel Messi, the new Leagues Cup format, and why Club America is favorite
July 25 - Derek Rae: ESPN commentator on Gio Reyna's flawed fit at Dortmund, why 'nobody knows' how good 22-year-old USMNT midfielder can be
July 7 - Callum Williams: Apple TV, world soccer commentator on the impact of Brazilian teams at the Club World Cup
June 27 - Kyle Martino: TNT analyst on USMNT goalscoring void, the state of the program and the return of Showdown to NYC
June 23 - Dax McCarty: Apple TV analyst on the opportunity, pressure facing Mauricio Pochettino and USMNT ahead of World Cup
June 19 - Herculez Gomez: ESPN analyst on why he's bullish about Club World Cup, memories of playing in CWC, how 2026 World Cup could be 'biggest sporting event ever'
June 17 - Herculez Gomez: ESPN analyst on Christian Pulisic controversy, state of USMNT, fractures in fan base and his admiration for 'highly relatable' Diego Luna
June 11 - Diego Valeri: Apple TV+ analyst on Lionel Messi’s MLS impact, supporting rival Sounders at Club World Cup, and U.S. and Argentina ties
May 21 - Taylor Twellman: Apple TV+ analyst on 'exciting' matchups in the Club World Cup, why a top European team will win, and how Inter Miami can benefit
May 13 - Kay Murray: ESPN FC analyst on Americans supporting Club World Cup, European teams vying for trophy, and whether an MLS team can make a run
May 9 - Luis Garcia: ESPN Analyst on Barcelona and 'fantastic' Lamine Yamal, why Real Madrid lack a philosophy, and Trent Alexander-Arnold leaving Liverpool
May 1 - Derek Rae: ESPN analyst on Harry Kane's trophy quest, Gio Reyna's Borussia Dortmund struggles, the meaning behind 'the smell of the stable'
April 28 - Christina Unkel: CBS Sports rules analyst on VAR challenges, 'visibility' in refereeing, former players becoming officials
April 25 - Alejandro Moreno: ESPN FC pundit on Kylian Mbappe's Real Madrid disappointment, Carlo Ancelotti's final season, 'best in the world' Lamine Yamal
April 24 - Bradley Wright-Phillips: Apple TV analyst on the 'brilliance' of Lionel Messi, 'chippy' Inter Miami, and why Kevin De Bruyne's next team should be NYCFC
April 22 - Ali Krieger: ESPN analyst on Naomi Girma's Chelsea move, the 'amazing' Emma Hayes and why NWSL 'can't just dilute the league by expanding'
April 16 - Jamie Carragher: CBS analyst on Club World Cup and packed schedule, 'disappointing' Trent Alexander-Arnold, 'delightful' Mo Salah deal
April 14 - Kevin Egan: Apple TV+ host on the 2026 World Cup, 2025 Club World Cup and growth of game in America
April 11 - Kay Murray: ESPN FC host on Harry Kane and Bayern Munich's Bundesliga ambitions, 'undeniable talent' of Gio Reyna, and Ballon d'Or race without 'a standout contender'
April 8 - Kevin Egan: Apple TV analyst on possible Kevin De Bruyne link with Lionel Messi and MLS, Cavan Sullivan's 'swagger' and 'next-level' Wilfried Nancy
March 26 - Kasey Keller: 'Guys that would rather be on the beach' - ESPN's Kasey Keller knocks 'general malaise' of USMNT players, says Mauricio Pochettino must show 'he's 100 percent committed'
March 21 - Kaylyn Kyle: Apple TV studio analyst on Lionel Messi and Inter Miami, the 'chaotic' nature of MLS, why NWSL player exodus could 'hurt the league
March 13 - Micah Richards: CBS Sports analyst on Man City's future, why Real Madrid will win Champions League, and that bet with Jude Bellingham
March 11 - Antonella Gonzalez: Apple TV’s Antonella Gonzalez on interviewing Inter Miami's Lionel Messi, the rise of Latin American influence in MLS, and being a Hispanic woman in broadcasting
March 4 - Nico Cantor: CBS Analyst on 'world-class' Mauricio Pochettino, 'mixed' Champions League format, and why USL can compete with MLS
Feb 26 - Andrew Wiebe: Apple TV analyst Andrew Wiebe on San Jose Earthquakes' 'massive offseason', Kevin De Bruyne's potential MLS arrival, league’s growth
Feb. 20 - Taylor Twellman: Apple TV's analyst on Lionel Messi's Inter Miami 'laying an egg' in MLS playoffs, Cavan Sullivan, and why Cincinnati are a threat
Feb. 18 - Taylor Twellman: Apple TV analyst on USMNT World Cup aspirations, Mauricio Pochettino, and team's signature wins - or lack thereof
Feb. 11 - Maurice Edu: Apple TV analyst on national team's potential, Cavan Sullivan's 'borderline arrogance' and 'global shop window' of MLS
Jan. 30 - Keith Costigan: Apple TV commentator on Mo Salah and Liverpool, the Olivier Giroud experiment at LAFC and more
Jan 28 - Nigel Reo-Coker: CBS Sports Golazo Network analyst on the new Champions League format, state of American soccer and Aston Villa
Jan 20 - Kate Scott: CBS Sports host on the American soccer psyche, USMNT's 'statement' hire in Mauricio Pochettino, 'enormous' 2026 World Cup and why Liverpool will win Champions League
Jan 13 - DaMarcus Beasley: USMNT legend on Lionel Messi's mindset, the 'good groove' for MLS and why Mauricio Pochettino is the 'right man for the job'
Jan. 9 - Callum Williams: Soccer analyst on Lionel Messi and 2025 Club World Cup, 'naivety towards' South American soccer, 'preposterous' that Jack Grealish has 'lost it'
Jan. 2 - Jenny Chiu: CBS reporter on 'big changes' by Emma Hayes, Mauricio Pochettino's 'pedigree' and possible UCL glory for Inter
Dec. 17 - Stu Holden: FOX Sports analyst on the evolution of the American game, why Christian Pulisic will be 'best U.S. Soccer player of all-time'
Dec. 12 - Brian Dunseth: Turner, Apple TV analyst on Ricardo Pepi, Christian Pulisic, Gio Reyna and USMNT's future under Mauricio Pochettino
Dec. 5 - Jalil Anibaba: Apple TV analyst on MLS Cup predictions, Inter Miami hiring Javier Mascherano and MLS's 'disheartening' coaching diversity issue
Nov. 21 - Andres Cantor: Telemundo legend on Mauricio Pochettino's Argentine mindset, the USMNT and having a front-row seat for the rise of the American game
Nov. 16 - Matt Doyle: Apple TV analyst assesses Inter Miami's defensive 'insanity,' whether Neymar could join Lionel Messi, MLS Cup favorite
Nov. 7 - Gary Neville: Veteran analyst talks USMNT World Cup hopes, 'hell of a player' Christian Pulisic, 'relentless' David Beckham, and Cristiano Ronaldo to MLS
Oct. 31 - Herculez Gomez: ESPN FC analyst on Mauricio Pochettino's impact, the USMNT's 'wide-open' striker race, and a player pool 'that lacks accountability'
Oct. 29 - Rebecca Lowe: NBC host on the growth of soccer, the 'incredible' Emma Hayes and 'profile-raising' Mauricio Pochettino
Oct. 24 - Andrew Wiebe: Apple TV analyst on MLS playoffs, Lionel Messi's 'nuclear form' and how Inter Miami can become league's 'greatest team of all time
Oct. 17 - Jamie Carragher: Veteran analyst talks USMNT, slams Man City over legal case, questions Mauricio Pochettino despite 'great' hire

ON THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

ON CHRISTIAN PULISIC

ON GIO REYNA

ON SERGINO DEST

ON USMNT'S TACTICS

ON THE WORLD CUP?

PREVIOUS EDITIONS OF MIC'D UP