'It's exactly what U.S. soccer needed' - CBS reporter Jenny Chiu on 'big changes' by Emma Hayes, Mauricio Pochettino's 'pedigree' and possible UCL glory for Inter

The CBS reporter joined Mic'd up to discuss the U.S. national teams, women's soccer in Mexico and Champions League

• Imagn

  ON WOMEN'S SOCCER IN THE U.S.

  GOAL: After such a successful NWSL season, after the U.S. wins the Paris Games, what do you think the state of women's soccer is in the US at the moment?

  CHIU: I think it's in a wonderful place. We've seen such a great trajectory. We've seen the fact that the viewership has grown so much, the attendance at stadiums has grown, and then that means the investment has grown in all areas of the game. So, this is something that women's soccer has needed for a long period of time, and this is finally the fruits of our labor.

  For me, as a broadcaster, I think that what comes into my head is, "How do we maintain that growth while not offending our OG fans?" There's people that have been here for the last 10-15, years that know the storylines, and then when we're broadcasting, how do we appeal to the newer fans and tell those stories without offending or mansplaining everything from the originals? So it's like this weird balancing act.

  GOAL: So how have you been doing that? Or how have you tried to do it?

  CHIU: Stay away from the mansplaining and assume knowledge, assume that people know. That's a safer bet than alienating the people that have been here from the beginning. Like, assume that the people that are new are going to catch on and learn themselves.

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  ON EMMA HAYES

  GOAL: Emma Hayes has been a massive influence on the US Soccer landscape. What have you made of her job, or how she's done so far, not just from the success, but the way she handles herself?

  CHIU: I think it's exactly what U.S. Soccer needed in this moment. I feel like we've had a bit of a pendulum effect, when we talk about the different managers that have been at the helm of the U.S. women's national team. You talk about Jill Ellis and her being viewed in a certain way, and then you have Vlatko Andonovski on the other end of the spectrum of whether it's respect from the players, respect from media, either which way. I'm not saying one is right or wrong, but I think that Emma Hayes kind of plays that middle game and she is very well respected by the players.

  I was a host for Chelsea USA's channel. So every week, I made a video on the men's team and the women's team. So I've kind of followed Emma Hayes with Chelsea for a couple years prior. I have a lot of experience with how she speaks to the media, her relationship with the players, how the players speak of her, and I have just massive respect for how she handles herself. This is what the U.S. needed, this level of professionalism that is kind of common in Europe. And yeah, we needed it. I don't mean that to talk down on U.S. soccer, it's like this next step.

  Also, just to have an outsider coming in. She coached in the U.S., and then she left Chelsea, but she's brought all these different ideas and shaken things up in a way that maybe if you were within the system and within NWSL you can't. It's not necessarily a certain personality can't do it, but the way that the structure has been put in place makes it hard to make big changes. And Emma Hayes came in with a credibility where she's able to make big changes, which I think was very necessary.

  You'll hear me on Attacking Third, when I used to host a show three times a week, about how you needed change - but change is not always possible for everyone. Emma Hayes has the kind of pedigree that can come in and make change, and it will be accepted and allowed. After our failures over and over again, and falling in the world rankings and all of those things, Emma Hayes came in at a great time with the respect of the players, with the respect of the organization. I think it's only up from here with her.

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  ON THE GLOBAL WOMEN'S GAME

  GOAL: Do you think that there should be more international tournaments or higher profile international games for women's soccer? Obviously you had the US-England friendly, which was big, and you have the Olympics, but it doesn't feel like the calendar is as packed or filled with significance. Do you think that there should be more?

  CHIU: I think we're dealing with a very interesting moment where we're talking about the ACL injuries on the women's side, specifically, and the condensing of games that lead to these injuries. And that's one part of it. But then they're saying that the science is not there and the research is not there. Is it the games, or is it the fact that they don't have the proper support in terms of cleats that fit their bodies?

  Is it the fact that there is not as many training staff, physical therapists, all of these things with the team as well? So when [injuries] come into the question, I'm kind of reluctant to say "we need more" if injuries are a part of that. We see it on the men's side and the women's side.

  But if you look at the calendar, yes, I think that the moment that we're in for soccer is growth. We're seeing unbelievable, unprecedented numbers, and how do we capitalize upon that and make sure we continue to grow? Yeah, international tournaments are the way to do it right now. I'm looking at like the different parts of the calendar year, and we have definitely openings for the ability to do that right now. In January to March, we have international friendlies. How do we make it so that those friendlies count? Because that's how you get more viewership and importance.

  GOAL: Right, because I'm not sure what the U.S. learns from playing Iceland, for example, twice in a row.

  CHIU: We have to be playing matches that matter, and we've seen this over and over again. It's elite competitions that count. I work in the game, and I'm like, "Oh, you're going to play Iceland again? We just played them!" Just the place that we're in, in the growth of specifically women's soccer, you have to have matches that count to pull these people in, for them to understand what this is, and the power of the game and these personalities. I think that one of the things that's lacking, or we need to do better, a better job of, is telling these player's stories, because they're so interesting.

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  ON WOMEN'S SOCCER IN MEXICO

  GOAL: You played for the Mexican youth national teams. You now cover primarily, the U.S. women's game, but what do you think Mexican women's soccer needs to do to improve?

  CHIU: I think we have to lay out the positives, like the fact that there is a league. When I was playing with the national team, I remember - I don't know if this footage existS - but I captained the national team at the U17 level, and we had press conferences where the message to get across to media was, "We need a league." At that point, we didn't have a league.

  GOAL: You were told to say that to the press?

  CHIU: 100%. That's what was lacking. So these players are coming into the national team, and they have been working their normal jobs, not training at all. They're all coming in unfit and unready because there's no infrastructure to keep these players ready. So then every time they come into camp, the responsibility is to get fit for the first two weeks, and then you can work on your tactics. And that doesn't allow for you to compete with the U.S. National Team, which has a league, they have continuity, they have all of these things.

  So I think that that was a huge point. And now for seven years, Liga MX has just continued to rise and become better and better. The most recent Liga MX women's final had 50,000 fans. And that's amazing. One thing that I've always said is that the fandom of, I'll say, specifically, Latino and Mexican fans... they are strong fans. They will follow everything you do and be 100% invested in the people that they like, the teams that they like.

  GOAL: It's on another level, right?

  CHIU: The selling power that you have with Latin followers, supporters, whatever it is, is so much heavier. I've used this example a million times, and no one ever really understands how important it is. When the league started for Mexico, if you compare the NWSL players and the Liga MX players, the amount of followers that each player has - I'm not talking about the best player. I'm not talking Alex Morgan and Rebeca Bernarl. I'm talking like just in the league - Liga MX players have so much following and power over young women or women who have never been empowered. It's a machismo culture that is now changing, and you now have these women that are empowered to be strong athletes and speak their minds on things. It's been such a change.

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  ON MAURICIO POCHETTINO

  GOAL: How important do you think it is to have a Latino coach in charge of the USMNT?

  CHIU: There is power to be a Latino coach within the U.S. Soccer Federation. He's the right manager at this moment, if we talk about the broader picture. Everything he has accomplished, everything he has done, playing in different counties and having that experience and the pedigree that he has, and then coming into the U.S. national team as manager at the right time... The timing, for who he is, is important. I constantly talk about how he is with the media, and the role he has to play going into this World Cup. It's different of what we would ask of another manager if we weren't hosting. Right now, we need him to be this very likable spokesperson in a way we don't ask managers to be. He's so likable, he's very open and honest. It's hard not to root for him.

  GOAL: He just seems to get exactly how it should work.

  CHIU: We've needed it for so long. For someone to elevate how seriously we're taken, you also needed a manager to be at that level. He obviously has the experience of dealing at different levels, in different countries, in different competitions... Champions League all of those things. It's a certain level of pedigree he's bringing to the U.S. While you can have a player like Christian Pulisic playing at the top level, or Weston McKennie, it's different if the manager isn't at that same level. And I just want to root for him. He's the right person at the right time, and understanding what 2026 is - 2026 is a really important year for this game we have been pitching our whole lives.

  I was told out of college to do football, to do basketball, there's no money in soccer.... And I was like "I'm only in this because I like the game and enjoy soccer, and that's what I grew up with." And thank goodness, because now it's paying off. But at the time, I had people like "You're dumb!" So the people that care, we've been in this for so long, understand that you need to be tactical and like, have a certain touch about 2026. I think that Mauricio Pochettino understands that and has that touch. And I think that that's what's so powerful.

  Whether or not it's his Latino culture, I think it's the ability to be chameleon-esque, to have that experience in different countries and different levels and get along with so many different people. Just the way that he speaks to media... we haven't really had that openness, where you feel comfortable asking the question and not being looked at like, "Are you a f*cking idiot?" And we need that right now!

  On the tactical aspect as well... you have to see what this team has been doing lately. I'm happy to see that he's making these changes. Just little things like the Tim Weah, left eye, right eye thing. So weird, but amazing. I've never even heard of something like that before. But you know what? The attention to detail and willingness to try things. I'm here for it.

  GOAL: It seems a bit more fluid and interesting.

  CHIU: That's how the game is supposed to be played! So you're interested all of a sudden, you're enjoying the fact that there's these nuances that we haven't seen from these players. But when you give these players trust that they can do these things, it excites them. Ricardo Pepi, was like, "Mauricio is giving us these ideas, but we have freedom to create in the final third" or something along those lines. That's what every footballer wants to hear, right? That's why you play the game in that final third. That's why you play those positions, because you have this creativity that allows you to be elite, and if you're putting restrictions on that, you're not going to see the best of these players. I'm excited about it.

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  ON REAL MADRID AND THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

  GOAL: So, Real Madrid. Are they in trouble? Is someone else going to win the Champions League?

  CHIU: I think it would be good for the game if someone else won it, to be honest. There's definitely some trouble in paradise. But you can't ever count them out either. You know how many times I've talked about this and been like, "Oh yeah, it's someone else's turn." And then Real Madrid... You just look stupid, because you're like, "How did you doubt them? You can't doubt them." But it's like, a touchy topic, because you kind of want it for the game, for there to be a little bit of a different thing. Like with Man City right now, a lot of people are happy because they've been dominating for so long

  I want Inter to win it. The fact that they have been so consistent in not conceding goals, and then the last few years, they're kind of building up to a win. So I'm, really hoping this is the year that they win. Just going to the final against Man City [in 2023] and barely losing. I'm like, "OK, they're going to get their opportunities." Simone Inzaghi is doing something amazing. Maybe this is the year. So that's my pick for winner.

  GOAL: They look good. Serie A also have Atalanta this year.

  CHIU: I like Atalanta too, though. Like Gian Piero Gasperini, their whole story, I like everything about them. You want to root for them too. Liverpool, Inter Milan and Atalanta, all three of those, I would be happy with a winner there, because it just kind of works. And their their storylines work. But you know, if you get Brest winning, why not... One of my first years covering Champions League, I was a reporter during the COVID year. I was there at all the games.

  GOAL: That must have been weird!

  CHIU: Oh, it was so weird. But I needed it because I have anxiety and I'm afraid of a lot of things. And there were five reporters allowed at each game... and we had the rights. So it allowed me to ask questions and stuff in a way that I wouldn't have been able to given my anxiety at the time. I remember one of the big storylines was - I don't remember who they were playing against - but all of Atalanta made less money than six other players on the other roster. It was this insane stat. And you're talking about Atalanta being this team that was like making the superhero run with not spending money because of those kind of players. And that was just a team, and that's all under Gasperini, so he deserves so much credit. So yes, I root for them as well, and now just having a little bit of a soft spot for Italy and their league.

• Jenny Chiu

  ON BEING A MINORITY WOMAN IN SPORTS BROADCASTING

  GOAL: So you touched on this in terms of the way that people were trying to drag you in different ways when you came out of college, but being a minority personality within soccer, specifically within women's soccer, what comes with that? Are you conscious of it? Are there challenges? Are there any times where you felt, "Oh, hang on, you're treating me differently, or like that kind of, that kind of thing?"

  CHIU: Honestly, I think I've used it as an advantage more than anything - I'd like to think. My first full time job was with Orlando City. And the coach at the time who came in later was Oscar Pareja and his staff only speaks in Spanish to each other. So for me to be the sideline reporter, I'm trying to listen in and report on what's happening and what subs are coming in and what tactics are changing. And if I didn't speak Spanish, I promise you, I wouldn't be able to do a good job there. And I felt so thankful that like I could talk to Oscar and ask him questions.

  So that helped me, and I'm choosing to use it as a positive. Yes, I could be saying, like, "OK, certain broadcasters are known for not hiring minorities." It's a fact. Will I use that as an excuse, or will I use it to kind of understand that I can create my own platform? Which I think is an important moment we're in, where we're going from broadcast to content creation and giving power to the talent in a way that we haven't really seen before.

  GOAL: You're in a wave among broadcasters - and writers, as well - using content creation and using social media as a tool for not just following, but also analysis. How important has that been for you?

  CHIU: I think it's the only reason I'm here. I got seen because I had a vlog. I got hired for Orlando City because I had a vlog where I was doing, "This is my job as an intern for Portland Timbers and Thorns." So you don't know I exist until I am creating this content and putting it out into the world. So that gives me my first opportunity. And then, when I'm on air for Orlando City, then Chelsea and CBS see me.

  So I'm understanding of the power of it, and I enjoy doing it, and it's always been natural to me. I hear a lot of people, whether it's writers or other talent that I work with with CBS, telling me it's so exhausting, like they don't want to do it. For me, it's fun. I enjoy it. I can't see the downside. I only see the upside. We're in a really interesting moment where there is opportunity to be able to show our personalities in our own way.

  And I think that for me, at the beginning, like the broadcaster box was this place I had to fit, and I don't really fit. I am very different than what I've been told I need to be. And then I got lucky that I worked under [CBS executive] Pete Radovich, who was like, "We hired you because you're you. Be you, and you don't have to do the box thing that you think you have to do." And over and over again I made that mistake. I was like, "Oh, I was told to wear more makeup." And he's like, "Hold on, we would have hired the person with more makeup if that's what we wanted. We hired you. Just be you."

  And I think that that's empowering and has allowed me to kind of take the steps I've made in my confidence and in my anxiety. Because I'm like, "OK, you gotta be OK with being you." That leads into my content creation. Because now I'm like, "Yeah, I'm gonna fail. I'm gonna do stupid things that annoy people, and for some people, it's gonna be a hit or a miss and whatever." But I'm me as long as I'm consistently being me, am I really failing?

• PREVIOUS EDITIONS OF MIC'D UP

  Dec. 17: FOX Sports' Stu Holden on the evolution of the American game, why Christian Pulisic will be 'best U.S. Soccer player of all-time'

  Dec. 12: Turner, Apple TV analyst Brian Dunseth on Ricardo Pepi, Christian Pulisic, Gio Reyna and USMNT's future under Mauricio Pochettino

  Dec. 5: Anibaba on MLS Cup predictions, Inter Miami hiring Javier Mascherano and MLS's 'disheartening' coaching diversity issue

  Nov. 21: Telemundo's Andres Cantor on Mauricio Pochettino's Argentine mindset, the USMNT and having a front-row seat for the rise of the American game

  Nov. 16: Apple TV analyst Matt Doyle assesses Inter Miami's defensive 'insanity,' whether Neymar could join Lionel Messi, MLS Cup favorite

  Nov. 7: Gary Neville talks USMNT World Cup hopes, 'hell of a player' Christian Pulisic, 'relentless' David Beckham, and Cristiano Ronaldo to MLS

  Oct. 31: Herculez Gomez on Mauricio Pochettino's impact, the USMNT's 'wide-open' striker race, and a player pool 'that lacks accountability'

  Oct. 29: NBC's Rebecca Lowe on the growth of soccer, the 'incredible' Emma Hayes and 'profile-raising' Mauricio Pochettino

  Oct. 24: Apple TV's Andrew Wiebe on MLS playoffs, Lionel Messi's 'nuclear form' and how Inter Miami can become league's 'greatest team of all time

  Oct. 17: Jamie Carragher talks USMNT, slams Man City over legal case, questions Maurico Pochettino despite 'great' hire