'Tremendous opportunity for the sport in this country' - Callum Williams on Lionel Messi and 2025 Club World Cup, 'naivety towards' South American soccer, 'preposterous' that Jack Grealish has 'lost it'

GOAL: The 2025 FIFA Club World Cup is just months away, and after the Group Stage draw in December, anticipation is higher than ever. What sort of opportunity does this present American soccer fans, the domestic game and the teams competing, themselves?

WILLIAMS: Well, firstly, from a fan perspective, I think it's a tremendous opportunity for people to see not only teams from the UEFA nations, but also from the CONMEBOL nations, from the Asian Football Federation, from all four corners of the world. Essentially, when you've got games such as Boca Juniors versus Bayern Munich, and you've got teams like Auckland City, and you've got other teams like Chelsea, potentially playing Flamengo and a handful of others. What a tremendous opportunity that is for football in this country to host a tournament like that, you know.

The Club World Cup, I think, divides opinions, and it has done for a long time, but I genuinely think because of this new format and because of the teams that are taking part in it, I think this could potentially be a new pathway for the Club World Cup, and could be one of the best opportunities for it - let's be honest, in a brand new market for it - because they've gone just about everywhere people have with this tournament.

But doing it in an emerging football nation like the United States, I think is a marvelous opportunity for both FIFA, for all the clubs involved as well, because - let's be honest - a lot of teams want to come here and grow their brand and marketing as well. But also, like I said, I think, from a fan perspective, it's a tremendous opportunity to go and see some really high quality football and competitive football as well. These aren't just preseason friendlies. These are competitive games. And so when you've got some of these other teams that are appearing from all four corners of the world. It's their chance to play against the likes of Chelsea and to play against the big boys of world football and what have you. So I think it's going to be great. I really do, I think it's going to be a tremendous opportunity for the sport in this country.

GOAL: Both Lionel Messi's Inter Miami and Jordan Morris' Seattle Sounders are representing MLS in the competition. What is a fair expectation for them both based on their respective groupings?

I think with somebody like Seattle Sounders, they have an attitude, they have an expectation as well as they have done for a long, long time. But the group that they're in, I mean my word, if you talk about some of the mouth-watering prospects that we have at our disposal, my God, Seattle Sounders against the champions of Brazil and the champions of the Libertadores in Botafogo? Atletico Madrid have been sensational and right at the top of European football for the last 10 years or so, and Paris Saint-Germain are one of the better known names across World Football. So from an expectation point of view, my assumption is Seattle would hope to get out of the group. But when you mentioned those names there, I mean, it's very, very difficult to pick any certain winners out of that group, and any certainty of top two, you know, it could be any of the teams.

I think when you've got somebody like Lionel Messi, the expectation is that you're going to win everything right? Obviously, that didn't happen for Inter Miami this year, but honestly, Miami… I think they'll fancy their chances of finishing second. I don't know if, again, if that's realistic. The one thing we're all hoping for is just that Messi plays, and he is as effective as he can be, and he gives everybody the the moment that we all, we all want and we have craves.

But Palmeiras are, for me, one of the most effective football teams I've ever seen. I was very fortunate to cover them for about three years during the Copa Libertadores several years ago where they won two of the three tournaments I did. Abel Ferreirai, the manager there, has adopted this direct approach – it's not the prettiest style of football, but it's very, very effective and I think Palmeiras will have bucket loads of supporters in the stadium. It's going to be amazing.

I think FC Porto and the Portuguese teams are often overlooked in world football, which I often find a bit disrespectful and a bit confusing, really. Because actually, Porto and Benfica, in that regard are absolutely juggernauts. They are humongous football clubs. But the fact that Porto are in the same group as Palmeiras, and Inter Miami, they're almost sort of been pushed to one side by a handful of the footballing world, and I don't think that's fair at all, because that there are tremendous football club and they have an array of star players who I think are going to go into bigger and better things over the course of the next couple of years.

Then there’s Al Ahly, who are an exceptional team. Their fans are unbelievable. I have a commentator friend who who commentated on one of their Champions League games and he said the atmosphere was absolutely ridiculous and will be intimidating. They've got so many good players and Egyptian football fans as well. Traditionally, there's an edge to them, there's expectation, as there always should be, but with a team like Al Ahly, who have been as successful as they have…. it's one of those groups where all four teams would fancy themselves to go through. I think they'd be happy finishing second, but they'll want to finish top.

GOAL: How do the Herons and Messi bounce back after what was ultimately an embarrassing end to the 2024 MLS season? Is it through international competition or the domestic league triumphs themselves?

WILLIAMS: As for the playoffs, embarrassing, probably the right word, but also as well, let's give credit where it's due to Atlanta United as well, because they were tremendous at that point. I did the opening game of the playoffs where Atlanta beat Montreal. And I'll be totally honest - I thought Montreal were going to beat Atlanta handedly. I didn't see much from Atlanta during the regular season. I did them a handful of times, and didn't think there was much about them at all, but credit sir to Rob Valentino and the job that he did. I thought he was incredibly unlucky not to get the job full time, and I'm assuming he's going to be on the radar of a handful of MLS clubs, at least he should be after the job he did. But look, I think, I think Major League Soccer is going to be a better place if Miami is successful, there's going to be more eyeballs on it, right?

It's as simple as that, but I think there are so many teams now that are relevant on the global stage that I think that that notion and that sentence could probably be challenged now more than ever before. So I think the CONCACAF Champions League is interesting for Miami. I really hope that they get the opportunity to play down in the Caribbean, because I will not believe that Lionel Messi has experienced CONCACAF properly until he's playing competitively on a cricket pitch in Jamaica or somewhere along those lines. Because he needs to have that experience, he needs to be humbled and have that experience.

GOAL: Will Neymar end up joining Messi, Luis Suarez, Sergio Busquets and Jordi Alba at South Beach?

WILLIAMS: I don't think so, I think he will end up in the Brasilerao, I think that's the way he wants to end his career.

GOAL: Over the past few years, MLS has tapped into the South American market more and more - finding emerging talents, role players and Designated Players from the like of Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay and more. How has this helped MLS establish itself in the global game and what does it mean for the future of the domestic game?

WILLIAMS: The one word that comes to mind when I think of Major League Soccer when they dip into the South American market is growth, because it's obvious that there's more money in this league now than there ever has been before. There is loads of money spread across European football, but there's enough money to be competitive on the world stage. I have friends who commentate on various leagues across Europe, and they've all said that it's obvious now that Major League Soccer is now a part of everyday conversation.

They see MLS scouts in Denmark, in Poland, in Croatia, they see MLS scouts in France and Germany and Belgium, because Major League Soccer is just a part of that conversation now. And the same can be said, as you quite rightly said, with regards to South America. One of the more successful deals was bringing Thiago Almada into Atlanta United. And I don't think that ended up in the manner in which many of us thought. I still think he's going to go to Europe. I think because of the John Textor connection between Botafogo, Club Leon and Crystal Palace, he he may very well end up in Europe, maybe in an unconventional way, but he's still going to end up over there at some stage, I think because he's too talented not to be – but losing the player to the Brasilerao is nothing to be ashamed of at all.

I have said many, many times, I think the Brasilerao, by far and away, is the best league in this part of the world. Probably a top six, seven league in the world. And so when Major League Soccer is competing for players with the Brazil and certainly signing players from the Argentine Primera, which has become a little easier because of the economic situation in Argentina at the moment, I only think it's a signal of major, major growth.

GOAL: For nearly a decade, Europe's pursuit of South America's rising stars seemed to vanish. During the mid-2000s, the craze was finding the next talent out of South America, and into the early 2010s, that trend continued until there was suddenly a change in the market. Europe's top leagues started to prioritize players from their native country. Now, 11 years on from when Barcelona signed Neymar, Europe have returned to that market, with the likes of Palmeiras' Endrick at Real Madrid and Estevao at Chelsea , Claudio Echeverri moving from River Plate to Man City, Aaron Anselmino from Boca Juniors to Chelsea - among countless others. Why now? What's changed, and why did it?

WILLIAMS: I think a lot of it has to do with a combination of naivety and ignorance. From a European perspective, I love European football, it's incredible. I love English football. It's amazing. But there is a certain naivety towards it at times when it's very much as though people are selling down a singular corridor and they only want to, if you're in England, you only want to watch English football. You only want to operate in English football. And that, for me, is the wrong way to operate. And so now, thankfully, it looks like that's changed.

Echeverri, he's 19, and he's been compared to Messi already. You know, I know that's an unbelievable statement to make. People from across world football are saying this could very well be the next one. River Plate has an unbelievable record of developing world-class players. I was fortunate enough to see Enzo Fernandez develop through that River system. I caught him just before he actually broke into the River when he was on loan at Defensa y Justicia when they won the Copa Sudamericana, and that's when he really got his breakout. And he was 18 years old and he bossing the midfield; he was tremendous. But that just shows that River have such a way of developing young players and selling them on and and let's be honest, using the cast the right way and bringing in star players from a South American perspective. So it's great. It's really, really good to see.

Anselmino is going to be somebody who I hope gets an opportunity at Chelsea and the same what we said about Echeverri, right? I think Echeverri is perhaps a little more first-team ready than Anselmino, but it wouldn't surprise me if Anselmino ends up going on loan somewhere before he does, I think he would get an opportunity in the Manchester City first-team before Anselmino would at Chelsea. I don't know. I hope I'm wrong there, but I can just see him, particularly with the way Chelsea have handled young players in the past. I can see him going out on loan somewhere, which wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing either, though.

Endrick, I mean, my word, it's every time you watch him play, I think he looks like he's a 27-year -ld that's fully established, not only because of his movement off the ball, because of his pace, because of his strength, but because of his physical build as well. He looks like somebody that's been in the gym for the last 20 years.

Estevao, he’s different from Endrick. I think Endrick, he's much more of a polished finisher, whereas I actually think Estevao is a better footballer. He's better playing just off of the center forward. He's better just a little deeper, almost in a 10 and a half role. And I think you'd be more than comfortable in the wide areas as well, particularly on the right, cutting in on the left. But Endrick I think could be one of the next big superstars we were going to see in world football. And I know that's a fairly obvious statement to make now, given what he's what he's gone on to do, and the move that he's got. But sometimes these moves don't work out.

GOAL:One particular star breaking out of South America this season is Aston Villa's Jhon Duran. You've been a Villa supporter since you were a child, what is it like seeing him emerge in the form he has, leading you into the Champions League this season?

WILLIAMS: His potential is absolutely as high as anybody I've ever seen in a Villa shirt. I will say I think he's still very raw, and he's got a lot to learn, but maybe that's why he's had so much success. Some of the goals that we've seen him score over the course of the last few months have been absolutely outrageous - where I wonder if a more experienced head would have even taken those shots on. You know, I think of the goal against Bayern when he clipped it over the goalkeeper. I think there was a goal where he, rocketed it from 30 yards out. And I thought to myself, "If you're, if you're a little more experienced, I'm not entirely sure if you try that." So I think he's got a lot to learn, for sure, but I think now it's clear that he's going to be a part of the future of the football club for a long time.

I guess the only thing that I have that's a bit puzzling to me is I don't know what his best position is, because I don't think he's a center forward. He doesn't strike me as somebody who's going to run at the near post and clip a ball in. He doesn't strike me as somebody that's going to play off the shoulder and latch onto a through ball every so often, simply because of his position. Yeah, but not naturally. He's probably better a little deeper. But then on the contrary, the counter argument to that is, in the Premier League, is he big enough, is he physical enough to play underneath the center forward, you know? So I think he's tremendous, I really do. And the good thing is he's only 21 so he's got so much developing to do, and I think we're only just getting a little glimpse of what he could be. As Villa fan, it's been amazing to watch. It's been sensational. And such as the whole sort of last year, really, it's been unbelievable. I never thought I'd see Villa in the Champions League in my lifetime at all. It's been sensational.

GOAL: On the topic of Villa, former club star Jack Grealish has had an off year for Manchester City. Across a 365-day span with Pep Guardiola's Manchester City, he went goalless for the club, with many prompting that he's fallen off of the standard. How do you view his performances, and is it time for him to depart City, perhaps returning to his boyhood Villa?

WILLIAMS: I think the notion and the idea that Jack has lost it is absolutely preposterous. And I saw this the other day from one or two people suggesting that he's not at that level anymore. And I just completely disagree. I think at Manchester City, with Guardiola and the way that, particularly when he first went to Manchester City as well, it was… you got the ball, touch, pass, touch, pass, touch, go. Whereas at Villa, when he was at the club, everything went through him. So he got the ball at his feet and it would be touch, touch, touch, then release the ball. And so I think obviously there was a system that was catered to him at Aston Villa. That's obviously not been the case at Manchester City, but I thought he adapted very, very well.

Look, who knows what's going on at Man City at the moment, I don't think anybody, even the smartest football in mind, can quite figure out what's going on. So I don't think it's a Grealish thing, to be totally honest. And I think every player, if he is having a bad spell. I think every player is allowed a bit of a bad spell every so often. You know, he is 29 going to be 30 next month, I believe. And I don't remember him ever having a really torrid season. I can't think of the top of my head of him having a bad season. So I think every player is allowed to have one or two throughout their career. But speaking from an Aston Villa point of view, I would give everything that I own for the club to bring him back, because I think he would take Villa to the next level.

But if ever there's a time to bring Grealish back, I would suggest it's now in this window, because it's clear that there's something not quite right at Manchester City. This is now the opportunity to come back to your boyhood club and play in the Champions League. I'm not convinced Aston Villa are going to qualify for the Champions League again next season, because I think the Premier League has gotten so unbelievably stronger this year compared to last. So I think this is the time to try and bring him back. And I do, honestly think he'd elevate the little to another level. I really do.

GOAL:Staying in England, you commentate on matches in the EFL more, and watch England's three tiers beneath the Premier League quite often. Two Americans in particular have interesting ends to the 2024-25 campaign ahead of them in Brenden Aaronson and Haji Wright. What do you make of Aaronson's resurgence at Leeds, and what sort of opportunity does Haji Wright have under the guidance of Frank Lampard at Coventry once he returns to fitness?

WILLIAMS: Brenden Aaronson? Obviously there's expectations of Leeds United as there always has been, always will be. I saw him say something along the lines of that he was surprised at the amount of pressure that comes with playing for Leeds United. And I understand that coming from abroad, sometimes you don't quite get it until you're in it. And you know, I think we're all a bit surprised as well. I think a lot of us thought he'd move on as well when Leeds were relegated, I think people thought that he was going to move on. But credit to him, he's stuck, and the championship is such a brutal league. It's tremendously entertaining, but it's a slog. It's a grind and credit to any player that sort of takes it on the chin and sort of dives into it.

And I think Aaronson, he's had to be patient. He's had to probably have time to get used to the physicality of it, because I do think it's one of the most physical leagues in the world. But I think his role now, when he starts, I think just floating either in the wide areas or underneath. I think it suits him marvelously. I just hope, from a U.S. men's perspective, he just plays regularly, continuously. You never know with Leeds, there's some very, very good players – that's, for me, that's nearly a Premier League team, and I think they will be a Premier League team come season’s end.

And I'm very interested to see what Wright looks like under Frank Lampard. Because if you remember Lampard, when he was at Chelsea, he would, more often than not, play with somewhat of a target center forward ahead of him, or at the very least a center forward that was slightly static. You think of Didier Drogba, Andriy Shevchenko and Hernan Crespo. They weren't center forwards that were blessed with a ton of pace. Haji Wright isn’t blessed with a ton of pace. Every time I've seen him, he's never struck me as someone that's got bands of pace. I think he's better suited as a target man.

And so I wonder if Lampard is going to bring some of that experience that he had as a player at Chelsea and as a manager as well, into Wright's game, where he'll say that "You're the focal point and you can have Callum O'Hara underneath and playing off of you." Whereas I don't think before - and I could be wrong here - that Wright has been told to be a target center forward. I think the expectation has been you're going to score the goals. You're going to be the man at the near post. You're going to be someone that's going to be a poacher, you're going to be a goal scorer. There are center forwards in this world that we live in that I don't think goals quantify success. Wright is one of those players. He has an opportunity, if Lampard indeed goes this way, to become a focal point, and to have a lot of pressure on him, not necessarily to school goals, but to be the main man. And I think that's an incredible opportunity for him. I'm very excited to see what it looks like in a couple of months.

Jan. 2: CBS' Jenny Chiu on 'big changes' by Emma Hayes, Mauricio Pochettino's 'pedigree' and possible UCL glory for Inter

Dec. 17: FOX Sports' Stu Holden on the evolution of the American game, why Christian Pulisic will be 'best U.S. Soccer player of all-time'

Dec. 12: Turner, Apple TV analyst Brian Dunseth on Ricardo Pepi, Christian Pulisic, Gio Reyna and USMNT's future under Mauricio Pochettino

Dec. 5: Anibaba on MLS Cup predictions, Inter Miami hiring Javier Mascherano and MLS's 'disheartening' coaching diversity issue

Nov. 21: Telemundo's Andres Cantor on Mauricio Pochettino's Argentine mindset, the USMNT and having a front-row seat for the rise of the American game

Nov. 16: Apple TV analyst Matt Doyle assesses Inter Miami's defensive 'insanity,' whether Neymar could join Lionel Messi, MLS Cup favorite

Nov. 7: Gary Neville talks USMNT World Cup hopes, 'hell of a player' Christian Pulisic, 'relentless' David Beckham, and Cristiano Ronaldo to MLS

Oct. 31: Herculez Gomez on Mauricio Pochettino's impact, the USMNT's 'wide-open' striker race, and a player pool 'that lacks accountability'

Oct. 29: NBC's Rebecca Lowe on the growth of soccer, the 'incredible' Emma Hayes and 'profile-raising' Mauricio Pochettino

Oct. 24: Apple TV's Andrew Wiebe on MLS playoffs, Lionel Messi's 'nuclear form' and how Inter Miami can become league's 'greatest team of all time

Oct. 17: Jamie Carragher talks USMNT, slams Man City over legal case, questions Maurico Pochettino despite 'great' hire